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Post by pokeria1 on Oct 8, 2007 6:07:26 GMT -5
so... as you guys know, at the end of "Beauty and the Beast", Gaston fell into the ravine after his "Last stab" on the Beast. But the question is, did he really die. I can't say that he is definitely dead, all i can say is that he may be alive. I mean, sure, statistics of surviving a fall is 3,000,000,000 to 1 (ie, a really low percentage), but then again, surviving being hit and flying across the room, being crushed by an antler chair, and surviving in the snow for several months on end, much less with the same amount of strength and energy as before is also in the extremely low percentage, and the last time I checked, his lackey, LeFou, actually did survive those ordeals with barely a scratch on him. Plus, though this isn't really in the continuity of BATB, it is still noteworthy, in the climax of "The Little Mermaid", Ariel had a similar ordeal to what happened to Gaston (ie, she fell several hundred feet into a whirlpool), and the last time i checked, Ariel survived.
Now if it turns out that he did perish, I would say "what is your beef of showing results from falls with villains, Disney", because why would they censor what happens after a fall, and yet feel it is alright to show things like Ursula being Impaled, electrocuted, and exploding among other things? I mean wouldn't stuff like Ursula's demise actually be much, much worse than things like what happened to Gaston?
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Post by lilredsippycup on Oct 8, 2007 9:54:25 GMT -5
Yea he is totally dead. He fell from that top tower of the castle to the ground. No one could survive that. Ariel didn't fall that far, she was caught in awhirlpool which didn't make her fall and go slpat like Gaston. And about censoring it, would you want to him fall and go splat? Disney doesnt show blood. If you notic when Ursula got impaled there was no blood.
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Post by Random Prince on Oct 8, 2007 10:43:26 GMT -5
I think they made it pretty clear that Gaston died. Cartoon characters can survive anything, but when they fall from a tower screaming and are never seen again, it's safe to assume they're dead. I believe they drew a skull or some kind of death symbol in his eye, just in case people weren't sure. It really bugs me how at the end of Cinderella, Lucifer falls out of the tower, surely to his death, and then appears in both the sequels unharmed. I guess it's the nine lives thing.
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Post by lilredsippycup on Oct 8, 2007 12:01:59 GMT -5
Yea they do flash a skull in Gaston right before he falls. On the DVD pause it and go frame by frame you totally see it.
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Post by pokeria1 on Oct 8, 2007 16:02:53 GMT -5
Yea he is totally dead. He fell from that top tower of the castle to the ground. No one could survive that. Ariel didn't fall that far, she was caught in awhirlpool which didn't make her fall and go slpat like Gaston. And about censoring it, would you want to him fall and go splat? Disney doesnt show blood. If you notic when Ursula got impaled there was no blood. Yeah... about that... As I stated before, no could ever survive being crushed under an antler chair with a big man sitting on it, either, and no one could especially survive in the cold snow for months on end in one spot for that several month period, either, and the last time I checked, Lefou was still able to survive, Plus, I forgot to mention that Gaston was able to survive falling off the top of a house at one point (you could clearly see him on the rooftops nearing the end of the song "Belle" and then when he talks to Belle, he was clearly seen falling down on his feet). now, it may not seem much, but considering how Santa Claus (See "The Santa Clause) was killed from falling off a roof, I'd say that would be an amazing feat in and of itself, and thus would be more than enough to have him survive a fall like that. And, also, I doubt the whirlpool's sides caught Ariel, as you said. If I recall correctly, Ariel was falling right through the center (the eye, so to speak) of the whirlpool, though we might have to watch through it again (yes, I did mean we, since you might have to do it too. no offense). And even if she were indeed caught by the whirlpool's sides, I'm pretty sure that the centrifical force and the acceleration speed of the whirlpool would have ripped her apart. And who says I wanted gore? I want as much gore in a Disney movie as most of you guys (meaning, I don't want gore in it). I was only saying that if they were able to get away with showing how Ursula died (Really, though, even if they didn't show blood, the mere animation of how Ursula died would still scare the little kids about as much as if there was blood shown.), they could just as easily show the result of Gaston's fall. And besides which, Disney not using gore is a bit of an understatement considering that they did show gore at certain points. For example, after Prince Phillip threw the sword of truth at Draco Maleficent's (You know, the Dragon form that Maleficent took) heart, you could clearly see blood pouring down from it. Also, they did show Ursula Bleeding from a cut at one point right after Prince Eric threw the Harpoon right at her (Black Blood or Red Blood, it was still blood.) Also, considering how her blood is the exact same color as her abdomen (you know, the area below the arms), she could very well have been bleeding profusely when she was impaled and yet we couldn't see it. Plus in the ending of BATB, when Belle pulled the Beast up, you can see quite a bit of blood pouring through the stab wounds. Also, in regards to the "skull eyes" thing, I believe there have been times where a cartoon character has skull eyes when a mortal threat meets said character and still lives. I don't really know of any examples, though (except for maybe when Pikachu thundershocks someone, but it's a bit iffy).
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Post by UmbrellaFish on Oct 8, 2007 16:22:11 GMT -5
I have to say I agree with pokeria1. Disney has a policy to show very little blood but not nessecarily no blood at all. Also Ariel surving that whirlpool event is somewhat similar to Gaston. I don't think Ariel hit any waves. I'm pretty sure of this since I was examining this on the platinum. Back on subject, I think Gaston could have survived but I don't believe he did. I hate that he didn't come back because imagine if Disney made a sequel with Gaston coming back for revenge. That would have been awesome!
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Post by lilredsippycup on Oct 9, 2007 9:31:09 GMT -5
Okay this is getting silly.
It's a cartoon, it isnt supposed to be logical. You take it as you see it. Sheesh.
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Post by Toastie2 on Oct 16, 2007 18:14:16 GMT -5
Also, in regards to the "skull eyes" thing, I believe there have been times where a cartoon character has skull eyes when a mortal threat meets said character and still lives. I don't really know of any examples, though (except for maybe when Pikachu thundershocks someone, but it's a bit iffy). Ummm, there's a difference between showing the skulls in the eyes for humour when the character thinks they will die or encounter something that will kill them, versus subtly drawing the skulls as the white glints in the eyes in a dramatic moment where WE DON'T SEE THEM SURVIVE. Just think about if they ever showed the "skull eyes" in any other Disney movie, and the context. I don't think there have ever been any other than in Gaston's case, but if there are, did the character die? Was it obvious? Was it meant to be funny? Also, Disney has been known for having villains fall to their deaths in many movies, starting with the first Disney feature, Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. It would just be tradition to assume Gaston died like all the rest of them. Lucifer is an exception because he is a cat and cats land on their feet. Ariel is an exception because, you know, she's not a villain and not supposed to die!
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Post by Kusanagi on Dec 17, 2007 9:17:46 GMT -5
definately dead for sure in my opinion. Its the most realistic explanation there is.
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Post by UmbrellaFish on Jan 2, 2008 15:38:25 GMT -5
Okay this is getting silly. It's a cartoon, it isnt supposed to be logical. You take it as you see it. Sheesh. I decided to respond again to this subject. I'm sorry, but you sound really hostile for people voicing their opinion. That's not an attack at you, just that reply didn't bode well with me. Obviously, Gaston is dead though.
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Post by Rena Bam Bena x3 on Jan 3, 2008 14:18:12 GMT -5
Lucifer is an exception because he is a cat and cats land on their feet. Ariel is an exception because, you know, she's not a villain and not supposed to die! That's what I think too. I think he's dead
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Post by pokeria1 on Jan 18, 2008 17:03:02 GMT -5
Also, in regards to the "skull eyes" thing, I believe there have been times where a cartoon character has skull eyes when a mortal threat meets said character and still lives. I don't really know of any examples, though (except for maybe when Pikachu thundershocks someone, but it's a bit iffy). Ummm, there's a difference between showing the skulls in the eyes for humour when the character thinks they will die or encounter something that will kill them, versus subtly drawing the skulls as the white glints in the eyes in a dramatic moment where WE DON'T SEE THEM SURVIVE. Umm... Considering how the same ravine Gaston was falling into had a river, We can't say that he is dead either. You do have a point on the skull thing, though. well, umm... technically the other villains didn't fall to their deaths because it wasn't the fall itself that Killed them. Queen: The Boulder fell on top of her and crushed her so even if she survived the fall, she won't survive, period. (Though this is debatable, since apparantly a Brazilian story has the evil Queen reappearing and explicitly states how she survived the ordeal in the original movie [and also how she can't return to her original state.].) Edit: it was actually an Italian story, not a Brazilian story. My mistake, but still, the mere fact that this story exists causes some debate as to whether she Actually died or not. Maleficent: she was impaled by the sword of truth and died before she hit the ground, so, like the Queen before her, even If she wasn't killed by the fall, The sword sure did. (speaking of the sword of Truth, is there a reason why they had it turn Black? I mean, for all I know, that could mean that Maleficent was actually sealed in the Sword rather than actually killed [sort of like Vaati in the "4 swords game/Minish Cap", and what happened to Ganon in FSA and (technically), Wind Waker.].) Ratigan: well, he was definitely killed by the fall. Medusa: Well, she was stranded on a sinking ship with her pet crocs harassing her. I don't know if she survived or not, but even if she did, the crocs would obviously let her know about their disappointment in her. Ursula: well, unless you count sinking underwater as falling to her death, she never fell to her death at all, she was killed in an explosion [which, believe me, If Disney was able to get away with Ursula's death without much complaints and/or lawsuits, they would have most certainly gotten away with showing the results of Gaston's fall.] (and even if she did fall to her doom, She was dead before she hit the bottom, anyways, considering how she was Impaled by a Ship.) Jafar: He died from his lamp melting, and his turning into a skeleton, his being zapped, and his exploding. In other words, he did not die from a fall. Zira: she drowned (though whether she died by accident or by her own design is unknown). Claude Frollo: He was burned and melted by Lava (It may not be lava, but it was a substance similar to lava), and besides which, that Gargoyle that fell with him was going to crush him. Hades: well, he was more sent to another dimension than actually killed (keep in mind that he is immortal) Scar: he was actually eaten live by his own hyenas, and besides, he also was burned to a crisp (the sequel made that quite clear) McLeach: well, Ok, same deal with Ratigan. ok, about lucifer, the last we saw of him before he vanished, his bottom portion (where we see his belly) was facing us. and in regards to Ariel, umm, I don't really see how her NOT being a villain has merit for her surviving. I mean, Mufasa wasn't a villain, either, and that never really saved him from falling to his death into the gorge (though what killed him was the Wildebeests.). I think they were trying to make a point to her being stronger than a human (remember, she's the same one who moved a Boulder (which, taking into account the depth and the Air Pressure's magnitude the deeper you go underwater, would make the Boulder at LEAST 10X as heavy as it would be on dry land, if not 100X as heavy.) away with relative ease.) Speaking of being stronger than most humans, Gaston most likely has superhuman strength or something, considering how he was able lift a hundred pound Bench with 3 average weight women on it with relative ease, and held it up with one hand without coming even close to Breaking a sweat (I'm not sure if EVEN The Aahnuld could even pull THAT off in his career.), Plus, he also was able to rip off a concrete Ornament from the roof of Beast's castle as if it was tissue paper. and considering how someone like Superman and even Shadow the Hedgehog was able to survive a really huge fall (and their falls were even HIGHER than the Height Gaston fell at.), I think that Gaston, who has marginally the same amount of strength as them, could survive that fall as well. Besides, there was a river down there so he could just as easily survive and swim off. Besides, Lefou has survived much worse things where he Shouldn't have survived (Being gut punched by someone whose fist was the same size as him, crushed by a bench, crushed by that Antler chair, and being buried in snow for several weeks, if not several MONTHS comes to mind). So, if Lefou is anything, if they can't kill off someone like HIM with any of these things, I don't think that Gaston would probably be killed by a fall either, esp. considering How ARIEL survived a huge fall at one point. (Actually, come to think of it, Gaston reminds me a LOT of Prince Vegeta from "Dragon Ball Z", right down to the personality. Hmmph, I wonder what Ariel and Gaston would feel if they had met each other? Could they act in the same manner that Goku and Vegeta act towards each other? Hey, Could Gaston be a saiyan as well?)
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Post by Girls4ever on Feb 8, 2008 9:15:25 GMT -5
He's Definitely, positively, absolutely dead. (this is my point)
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Post by tnadav1 on Feb 8, 2008 11:32:51 GMT -5
Hmm,guys? it's animated films with merpeople and talking objects,not a sience lesson.
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Post by stephhthemermaidd on May 21, 2008 18:57:34 GMT -5
Gaston is most probably dead if he hasn't showed up in any other sequels. If it bothers you so much, just write to the director. xD
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Post by pokeria1 on May 21, 2008 19:46:31 GMT -5
Gaston is most probably dead if he hasn't showed up in any other sequels. If it bothers you so much, just write to the director. xD Well, I hate to contribute to necroposting, but if you insist... Even if he did survive, It's kinda hard for him to actually appear in the sequels. For example, there wouldn't have been a chance for him to appear in the enchanted christmas since the majority of the plotline actually takes place during the original film (The Beast is still the Beast, for example.). Besides, would you really expect the man who holds a murderous grudge on the Beast/Adam for taking his "girl" (even though Belle didn't even want to be with Gaston in the first place) to actually arrive at the castle for a christmas party held by the exact same man who married his target? The Triplets and Lefou didn't even ARRIVE at the party either, and it was blatantly obvious that Lefou survived the ordeal in regards to the failed seige, and the Triplets didn't even participate at the Siege at ALL. For Belle's magical world, We don't even know when that movie takes place (if it even SHOULD be called a movie, considering how some people speculated that it was supposed to be the 4 episodes from a development-hecked tv series.), but we DO know it takes place in between the events from "The enchanted christmas" (how else can you explain Adam remaining in his Beast state?). About writing to the director, I wish it were possible. I mean, didn't the director for BATB die from AIDS or something? Even if he was still alive, It's going to prove to be extremely difficult to actually contact him (his e-mail address, Phone Number and his mail address aren't listed anywhere, and even if it was, there's that high chance that he isn't going to have the time to actually answer that email/mail.)
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Post by Jazzy on May 21, 2008 22:02:56 GMT -5
Wow, I mean honestly I would of never thought that such a simple concept would create a doctoral or graduate level of discussion. I do not think there is some hidden idea or meaning behind this what so ever. They put skulls in his eyes to foreshadow death. THE END. He died. If the animators/directors/whoever else spent so much time having hidden meanings on things this simple, Beauty in the Beast would still be in the production process. This isn't Shakespearean theatre or Edgar Allan Poe's poems. If you want to talk about things like that in this sort of way that makes more sense but this is a little overkill.
Also, the directors of BATB did not did not die. It was the executive producer and lyricist Howard Ashman who also did stuff for TLM who died of AIDS.
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Post by WickedElphie on May 24, 2008 23:35:47 GMT -5
Is it wrong that this thread made me think of the henchman from the first Austin Powers who gets tossed into the trapdoor by Dr. Evil? "I'm still alive, just very badly hurt."
I do believe the intention of the animators, writers, etc. is that he is in fact dead. I think one reason we don't see Gaston's body is that he is realistic human character, and showing a grisly realistic human corpse wasn't on Disney's agenda.
But honestly, my opinion is if anyone wants to bring him back in fanfic or whatever, more power to ya. The opening for alternate interpretation is there.
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Post by Frodo on Sept 1, 2008 7:31:12 GMT -5
dead dead dead and voila
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Post by pokeria1 on Sept 4, 2008 16:20:04 GMT -5
dead dead dead and voila I'm not really sure if that counts since some other characters (mostly that of "Pokemon") have had skulls in their eyes at some point or another, and turned out just fine. And anyways, if Gaston could be killed from that fall, please explain How Ariel was able to survive that fall right here (I mean, OTHER than she is the heroine of the story): rappy.ra.funpic.de/coppermine/displayimage.php?pid=83124&fullsize=1rappy.ra.funpic.de/coppermine/displayimage.php?pid=83125&fullsize=1rappy.ra.funpic.de/coppermine/displayimage.php?pid=83128&fullsize=1mylittlemermaid.com/moviepics/tlmpepics/page6/page6pics/tlmpe1176.jpgrappy.ra.funpic.de/coppermine/displayimage.php?pid=83129&fullsize=1rappy.ra.funpic.de/coppermine/displayimage.php?pid=83130&fullsize=1[I mean, the maelstorm that Ariel fell into has to be at LEAST the height of the ravine, if not as tall as the castle and the ravine combined, and if Gaston died from it, then so will Ariel, and yet she survived relatively intact. Besides, How on earth could Lefou have been able to survive all the brushes with death he had? (I mean, he get's punched across a room by a man three times his height, he get's crushed by 400 pounds (the bench with the ladies on it) and about 600 pounds (the bear skin rug with Gaston sitting on it being thrown on top of him), plus the fact that he survived several weeks, if not several MONTHS buried in snow. I mean, I don't think the average man can even survive for a few days being buried in snow, much less the entire winter season, even IF they have a huge amount of lard.) Also, considering how Santa Claus couldn't even survive falling off a roof, how on earth did Gaston survive falling off the house at the beginning of the film? I don't expect to change your opinions on the matter with this soliloquie, but it is at least a food for thought.
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