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Post by Aquisha on Mar 30, 2009 23:36:38 GMT -5
Here's my thought on Eric+parents+sailors+Grim/Carlotta:
IMHO of the TLM universe, Eric's mother died in childbirth (a fact which un-nerves him more than he let's on), leaving he and his father to be beyond close. Eric's father was everything; mentor, parent, sibling, friend. The king was a great man. He knew everyone in the kingdom and was genuinely concerned about them, a trait which he instilled quite deeply into his son. He also was a very humble and practical man; he wanted to be treated just the same as any other person in his kingdom. And on a ship, he was a sailor first and foremost.
Enter the sailors. I think they'd have a honest liking to the king: he was hard-working, fair, and an unparalleled seaman. Eric would have been brought up on the ship and having a naturally inquisitive nature and a knack for resilience (case in point, being throttled by 40 foot waves and climbing on to resurrected ship wrecks), he would have proven himself from a very early age as a promising miniature of his father and a worthy addition to any ship. And since Eric was never a "prince" about anything (no pampering or special treatment and no complaining), they respected that and took him under their wing. Whatever they knew, Eric would know. Whever they went, Eric went. As long as he kept his eyes and ears open and his mouth shut, there were never any problems. Eric grew up considering those men to be some of the finest he knew.
Now when Eric's father dies (when Eric is about 10), there's a major shift in him. Up until this point, it's been a real Simba/Mufasa kind of story, but Eric takes his father's death much differently. After the initial shock, instead of running away, he's eager to take up the mantle that his father had constantly kept him aware of. This sudden maturity would probably worry Grim and Carlotta because they know that Eric's composure is thin. But being only 10 or 11, Eric couldn't keep up the facade of strength for very long and probably a few months after his father's death, he'd finally break down and confront all the confusion, anger, and sadness that he'd been pinning up. It's then that someone (Grim or Carlotta, maybe even Sayers in a passive way) explains to him that even though he's a ruler, he's still human and right now he's still a little boy. Whatever he needs to go through is fine and no one will judge him for it. He can always have a place where he can be himself. Of course, the place Eric would pick would be out on open ocean, where he's in his purist form and closest to his father.
From there Eric's personality is a hybrid of who he was before and who he'll have to be after his father's death. And the separation is probably as clear as land and sea: on shore, he's practical and thoughtful, putting the country's best interests first and then at sea he's a normal teenaged boy, getting into trouble, traveling everywhere he can, hearing tall tales and almost believing them. It's not until Ariel comes along that the part of him that had always been at sea stays with him past the shoreline.
That's my exceptionally long winded view of things. I could probably get even deeper, but I'll save that for fanfiction.
P.S. As far as Eric's room goes, I'd never thought of it any further than the bed having curtains around it. But I love the idea of him having momentos of the places he'd been and that they'd each have a story!
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Post by Zavi on Mar 31, 2009 20:56:39 GMT -5
Heh, don't we all?
Oooh, excellent analysis, Aquisha! -applause- This part made me aww and popped another question into my head:
I really, really want to say a couple things to add on to that, but I can't! -explodes- Curse the spoilers!
Heh, I've been waiting for someone to mention Simba/Mufasa comparisons in Eric. I see a bit of Simba in him, though Eric doesn't necessarily run away from his royal duties. He just doesn't know how to deal with them.
Now, for the question: What will Eric do when Max dies? What will Ariel do, for that matter? Feel free to disregard the fact that Max was still alive and kicking while Mel was twelve years old--I always wondered how he could live that long...
Off-topic: This afternoon, I found out that our student newspaper coordinator/Creative Writing teacher was having a themed wedding. I can't remember if it was general sci-fi or exclusively Firefly, but one of the editors was asking if he'd kick people out if they didn't come dressed as characters from Firefly. It totally made me think of this thread. XD
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Post by WickedElphie on Mar 31, 2009 22:43:36 GMT -5
Heh. Yeah, I can see thE Simba, Also lately my brain has been teeling me that little Eric was a lot like Mokuba Kaiba from Yu-Gi-Oh, except with shorter hair, slighty less trauma, and a different eye color: yuugiou.fran-web.net/Image/Mokuba/01/index.htmlIsn't he cute? And Mokuba with his big brother Seto at both age 6/10 and 11/16: yuugiou.fran-web.net/Image/Group/NA-04/index.htmlAlso I've decided that part of Max's mix is guardian spirit dog a la Mouse from The Dresden Files and thus he is going to live far longer than he should, like 'til Eric is eighty. *Lalala I can't hear you. Logic, what logic? Lalalalala.* Seriously I just can't deal with imagining Max's death. Which is odd, cause I'm okay killing off Ariel and Eric in alternate reality scenarios. Hmm.
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Post by Aquisha on Apr 1, 2009 0:42:41 GMT -5
I'm glad you guys can see the Simba/Mufasa thing. I thought that might be seen as way off. At some point (don't ask me when) I want to do little vingettes into the pre-TLM days of Eric's life. Nothing too huge, just little sneak peeks in year long intervals...
Ok, so I have thought of Max dying and yes, it's real sad. I think Eric got him when he was about 15 and that Max'd live about ten years, so a little into the lives of Eric and Ariel's kids. He would have been able to give Melody little rides (when no one was looking of course). But yeah, when Melody's about five and their second child is about three, Max would succumb to his old age. I think Eric would be a bit of a mess and Ariel would totally understand: give him his space, she'd answer all the girls' questions at first, she wouldn't press getting another dog right away. I think Eric would be really upset, even moreso than he thought he'd be. On the whole, it'd be a huge loss.
Now if you think that's a downer, think about what would happen if it was Grim and/or Carlotta. God, why is the hypothetical passing of fictional characters still so painful!?!
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Post by fridamoonbeam on Apr 1, 2009 9:19:46 GMT -5
I love Simba XD Poor Eric actually gave a base for a lot of other characters, but hardly gets credit for it. And I must say I love hearing everyone's thoughts on these random questions him. For one it's great to think on other POV's the other is I like talking about him with people who love him. XD
::Snert:: Elphie, he is very cute.
Oh, I have thought about Max dying a LITTLE. Mostly since I wondered how he could be kicking and spunky as he was when he younger. The idea popped into my head that Max passed away while Eric was on a random sailing trip and Ariel then replaced him with another dog before Eric got back. This would go on and "Max" would never actually die. XD JK!!!
I don't want to think about Max dying, though LOL. But I think it would be really hard on him. Eric went to save him from a burning ship, which a lot of people would say was dumb of him. But it makes perfect sense if you're an animal lover AND take into account that Max was his family. Not to mention it gave more depth to Eric's character in the "if he loves you, he's your boy for life" way. LOL So I think Eric would take it as hard as a person dying.
It's kind of cool to think that Max wouldn't die, like he's Eric's "deamon" ala Golden Compass LOL.
Oh, I did think about Grim dying but not Car, weird. But I can only see Eric trying to make them as comfortable as possible. Having heart to hearts, which lead to Eric apologizing about some things when he was younger and they'd retort, "Why are you apologizing? You were a kid..." or what have you.
But this is making me sad and I don't want to think about it anymore XD
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Post by fathomsbelow on Apr 1, 2009 17:11:01 GMT -5
I really did find it odd that Max was still living, too. Oh, I have thought about Max dying a LITTLE. Mostly since I wondered how he could be kicking and spunky as he was when he younger. The idea popped into my head that Max passed away while Eric was on a random sailing trip and Ariel then replaced him with another dog before Eric got back. This would go on and "Max" would never actually die. XD JK!!! LOL. That would have been funny, and I can totally see that happening. I think if Max happened to die, Eric would take it kind of hard, because they had been through a lot together, and he saw him as a friend almost. But I think that if Grimbsy died, he'd take it alot harder, since Grimsby was almost like a father figure. I can imagine him being angsty for a while, and Ariel comforting him. He'd never really "get over it" but he'd be able to go on. But I really think that it'd be really difficult for him if he didn't have Ariel there.
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Post by Zavi on Apr 2, 2009 18:32:25 GMT -5
Oooh, good, I'm glad people like all these discussion-sparking questions. I feel like a pest asking them as they pop into my head, but I love hearing people's thoughts on things. It helps get a sense of the character through every viewpoint. Awesome fanart--Eric, the dashing grey stallion: uppun.deviantart.com/art/My-Little-Pony-Prince-Eric-117860342Who knew he made such an attractive horse. XD It kind of bugs me (apart from his horrible animation) that Max was still kicking in TLM2, but it was a nice little detail and I appreciate it at the same time. Eric'd obviously take it pretty hard when Max died, since he's probably heard more of his musings than Ariel has. It'd be worse if it was a sudden death (getting hurt while adventuring or a sailing accident), but I think as Max grew older Eric would have many talks with Ariel about how he wouldn't be able to cope without his best puppy. It'd make his death easier on Eric, but he'd still be a wreck for a while afterwards. I've thought about Grim's death a little and never about Carlotta's death, but they'd be equally pressing on Eric. I'd like to think that Car helped Ariel with a lot of domestic things (periods--poor Ariel! XD--pregnancy, Mel's delivery, etc.), so her death would have a pretty big impact on everyone. Grim's, too. I'd like to see Sebastian mourn after Chef Louis kicks the bucket. My, my, aren't we morbid today? Random question: Does anyone else enjoy watching all the weird faces Eric makes throughout the movie? I love the "WTF" face before the horse jumps over the ravine and whenever he raises his eyebrows.
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Post by fathomsbelow on Apr 2, 2009 18:45:08 GMT -5
The pony Eric is so cute! And I love how the artist made an Ariel pony too I love Eric's random faces XD. My favorite has to be his WTF one too--it's hilarious and cute at the same time XD I also like the one when he first sees Ariel( on the beach when her hand's on his face ) I love groggy Eric XD I also like the face he makes when he sees Ariel after she makes the deal with Ursula. Not to mention the one when he's climbing up the rope on the shipwreck during the battle with Ursula. I love how he looks so determined to stop her. I love Eric's face lol.
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Post by WickedElphie on Apr 2, 2009 20:39:54 GMT -5
I *heart* Pony!Eric.
And yeah, he has some great faces. I love his little eye-brow raise at the statue's unveiling, and there's thsi look of wonder on his face as he asks the sailor about King Triton.
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Post by fridamoonbeam on Apr 2, 2009 21:28:56 GMT -5
Yay my Little Eric Pony! He even has an anchor on his booty XD LOL! Sebastian might kick the bucket before Louie since crabs have fairly short life spans, I believe. But then Louie may be tempted to cook him into something XD I'm sick, I know! One of the things I love about Eric is that his face is really expressive. It's not just lovely to look at. You can always tell that he IS thinking about something which makes him less cartoony, imho. Those eyebrows of his are great! BTW, I will be trying to get the DA page up for him by the end of the week if not the next. And god willing move TTWDPF along too. But I have to let you guys know that Eric won't be in chapter six. Fear not, though. He'll get more than enough coverage in chapter seven (aka "Escape from Tortuga")
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Post by Aquisha on Apr 2, 2009 22:55:30 GMT -5
Frida, my favorite part of Pony-Eric was the anchor too! And yay for "Escape from Tortuga"! So excited!
And can I just say that I love it that other people call Carlotta "Car" too! I just imagine that Eric would give everybody nicknames; it's a sailor thing I guess!
My favorite Eric expressions: - "Then you couldn't be who I thought"- on the beach realizing Ariel can't speak, so cute and disappointed! - The revealing of the statue- priceless - When Ariel starts combing her hair with her fork- hilarious - When he laughs at Ariel blowing the pipe in Grim's face and he rolls his eyes at Carlotta's fondling- such a realistic teenaged guy moment! - When he's playing with Max in the garden and Eric scratches Max's head- Gah! he's a a dork and I love him! - "Grim, I lost her once; I'm not gonna lose her again!"- determined Eric, gotta love it - and yes...the WTF face over the ravine. There was a avatar on Annie's "Daring to Dream" site that had that picture of Eric with "WTF" next to it. I still want it to this day.
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Post by WickedElphie on Apr 3, 2009 11:59:24 GMT -5
Another one I forgot: On the second night Ariel's there when Eric looks at the window and sees her combing her hair with the fork, and he gets this sweet little half-smile, which then turns into a frown as he realizes that he has to make a choice.
Sooo sweet.
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Post by Zavi on Apr 3, 2009 20:25:02 GMT -5
I want an Eric pony. I just can't stop looking at that fanart!
Again, kudos to Eric's team of animators for giving us the first prince with some decent acting. It may just be me over-analyzing, but it's amazing what you learn about him through watching the movie a few times.
I love this:
And when he's stopped the boat in the beginning of Kiss the Girl and finds out Ariel's name. He tilts his head and says, "That's kind of pretty", and I melt every time.
Hey, since most of us are writers, what do y'all have to say about writing Eric? What do you find easiest or most fun, and what do you find most challenging?
I love Eric's passion for things and the way he stops to ponder. The poor boy's so conflicted sometimes, but it makes him more interesting. He's got such a range of emotions that it oozes off the page!
I like that Eric's personality is a bit open--he's got enough character that each interpretation is fundamentally the same, but there's room for very different takes on him. I love reading how each writer does it (if he's not just slinking in the background, of course).
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Post by WickedElphie on Apr 4, 2009 16:59:55 GMT -5
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Post by Zavi on Apr 5, 2009 13:20:37 GMT -5
I love that one! It's one of the songs from a Disney sequel that I actually like. It fits so well with them, too. I've been obsessed with this angsty fanvideo for a while--I like the version with lots of Disney clips better, but I absolutely adore the song.
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Post by fathomsbelow on Apr 5, 2009 15:33:07 GMT -5
I love that video! I have to admit, I haven't seen TLK 2 in a long time, but I think the song is perfect for Ariel and Eric
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Post by WickedElphie on Apr 6, 2009 19:44:01 GMT -5
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Post by fridamoonbeam on Apr 6, 2009 23:52:19 GMT -5
Wow, Zavi. Let me think.... What I find fun and hard about writting him, IS his different emotions and thoughts. I love characters with layers. Characters I'm not so fond of are ones who never really question themselves or have many conflicting thoughts. It's so stale for me to read. It's like "Congratulations, you're perfect!" LOL. Plus I love that he's a GUY who's in touch with his emotions, but isn't feminine OR a wuss. LOL But finding that right balence for him is the real challenge cause it's so easy to over-do him. One hand he might seem whiney, or too much the other way and he's cold. And you know he doesn't lean more one way or the other. I LOVE the videos everyone posted! Another question; and this is random! If Eric some how became cursed to live as sort of a "beast" figure, what do you think he'd look like? If he was in the same style as Beast, then I'd imagine he'd be more sleek and have lots of black fur, and oddly beautiful. But I see it fitting his character more if he was to become like a Davy Jones sort to speak, where he kind of becomes taken over by sea life. I'm so weird..... XD
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Post by WickedElphie on Apr 7, 2009 0:40:15 GMT -5
One of my rampaging plot-bunnies is Eric somehow getting turned into a very tiny (like smaller than one of the trumpeting seahorses) blue fish. This is after the storm but before everything else, so he recognizes Ariel, but all she sees is a very confused little lost fish, and for some reason he can't tell her who he is. Wackiness ensues. As for something a touch more menacing: Okay, has anyone here seen The Thirteenth Year? It's about a kid raised as human secretly being a merboy and going through some...changes. But instead of getting a tail right away his legs got scaley and his feet kind of webbed into what kind of looked like snorkel-fins but real. So my Beast!Eric would have solid scales from the waist down to the fin-feet (he wouldn't need pants because the scales would cover everything), but would still have separate legs. His hands would be webbed too and there would be scales all along the front of his arms, going up his shoulders, and the very bottom of his neck. The scales would be midnight blue BTW. He'd have a long tongue, and larger, reptile-ish eyes, that would still be blue. And very sharp teeth. Also, if anybody's seen the Aladdin episode "Eye of the Beholder" I think he'd make an awesome snake-person: www.aladdincentral.org/transcripts/eotb/index.htmlScroll down to the bottom.
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Post by Zavi on Apr 7, 2009 19:55:17 GMT -5
Frida - I've read the next chapter of TTWDPF, and I'll be reviewing as soon as I get a good block of time. This song, to my knowledge, hasn't spawned a TLM fanvideo, but I'll be very happy if it does. The song doesn't quite match if you take the lyrics literally, but I think it has an Ariel/Eric feel. Love Remembers - Craig MorganI love answering questions, random ones included. Hmm, Eric'd either be a Kelpie, the Leviathan, or some sea serpent/water demon. Something like Davy Jones meets Captain Amelia,although I can't seem to produce a good image of that in my mind. XD I like Kelpie!Eric the best. Something like this. Horses are often symbols for freedom and passion, and what better way to embody that than a creature who maims people who venture too close to the water? Well, that was morbid... Leviathan!Eric works well, too. I wouldn't want to run into a giant seamonster!Eric.
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